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Swap 289 to 302 or..?
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6T4LaneSportCoupe
Junior Member


Joined: 27 Jun 2010
Posts: 42
Swap 289 to 302 or..?

I currently have the factory original 289 2 barrel with the 5 bolt bell housing pattern. I have been told that these engines are prone to overheating problems. The engine only has 64K miles on it now but I am having overheating problems already. I was thinking of boring the engine and adding a 4 speed (currently a 3 speed Cruise-o-matic). I have checked timing and point gap and they are dead on. Since finding the 5 bolt bell housing is next to impossible I was thinking of swapping to a 302 so I can get easier available bell housings, newer parts etc. Am I missing something? I want this to be a driver, not a race car. I do want better performance but don't want to stray too far from stock appearance and want to be able to return the car to stock. (I will keep all the original parts.) So, should I tear apart the original engine and rebuild it or go with the newer 302 or 5.0 roller engine? How much work is it installing an AOD in this car? I have an early Bronco 9" housing that I am thinking of shortening to use with the combo. I currently have 3.0 rear gears in the 8" rear. With the gas prices I would like to keep higher gearing but am willing to make up for the lower rear gear with an OD automatic or and overdrive stickshift. Ideas please. Thank you all

Post Sat Apr 30, 2011 3:15 pm 
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mygirls63
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Joined: 09 Mar 2006
Posts: 416
Location: Kansas

No easy answers for you without spending lots of money on your behalf!

If you are thinking you will restore it one day, just pick up a late model 5.0 and whatever transmission you desire. You could do the 4 speed, C4 or AOD. Keep in mind that the AOD is a tight fit and would take some "hammer work". Regardless, you will need the later ('65 and up) motor mounts.

You need to figure out why it is overheating. Something in your cooling system is off. If you don't get that sorted out, the 302 will run hot as well.
Not too sure who told you the 289 was prone to overheating, I haven't heard that one before.
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Scott
1963 Fairlane Mini tub 10pt cage New 408" C4 Canfield 195CC heads Comp solid roller Victor Jr. 9" w/4.11? gears Moser spool & 35 spline axles. www.marksullense85carburetors.com

Post Sun May 01, 2011 7:41 pm 
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jppatches
Senior Member


Joined: 09 Mar 2006
Posts: 152
Location: auburn,Wa.

Hello, Ford swirtched over to a 6 bolt bell housing in june of 65.

Post Sun May 01, 2011 8:45 pm 
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6T4LaneSportCoupe
Junior Member


Joined: 27 Jun 2010
Posts: 42

I was told that the overheating problem happens when they are bored out. He told me that anything over about .020 would cause heating problems. Since I have not had the engine apart and I doubt that the previous owners have either I am guessing that it is still stock bore. I have checked for flow with the cap off and it flows fine. The engine seems to heat up at about 65mph. Once I get off the highway it does not cool back down though. If I drive slowly around town it drives fine with no heat problems. It has a new water pump, thermostat and 2 row radiator.

Post Mon May 02, 2011 8:39 am 
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GerryProctor
Senior Member


Joined: 10 Mar 2006
Posts: 660
Location: San Antonio, Tx

Make sure the distributor centrifugal advance is not stuck and the vacuum advance is working properly.

Check the fan belt is tight and not glazed.

See if the radiator to core support seals are in place and no air is moving past the radiator core. Air coming into the grill should be going through the core, not around it.

Have a radiator shop check the radiator for coolant flow (not something you can do by just eyeballing the water at the tank).

Post Mon May 02, 2011 9:43 am 
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dave s
Senior Member


Joined: 10 Mar 2006
Posts: 163
Location: Tottenham Ont. Canada
O'heating

I have a '64, Fairlane 500, it has the early 5 bolt bell, 3 speed cruiseomatic, (same as yours), the engine is bored out .040", 29,000 miles and no overheating, I am running a three core rad and an electric fan which only has to be used in town, runs a constant 180, on the hwy.
dave s

Post Mon May 02, 2011 12:14 pm 
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outlawcaveman
Member


Joined: 13 Feb 2008
Posts: 54
Location: South Arkansas

I had a 289 in my '65 Comet that
had been bored .060, which is not
recommended with these engines
because of thin-wall cylinders, but,
it never gave me heating problems,
and I drove it 40 miles each way to
work and back. (3.25 gears - 4/speed)
Besides the answers given in the above posts,
please note that if someone has
changed your fan to a clutch-type
fan, it could have a bad fan-clutch
causing the overheating.
Another possibility not yet mentioned:
If the engine has been into or rebuilt, it
is possible on most Ford engines to get one or
both of
the head gaskets on wrong ( with the coolant
passages blocked in the rear instead of open)
which will surely cause overheating.
Nothing wrong with 289 engines and though
I previously worked in an engine rebuild shop,
I too have never heard the one about a bored out 289
having heating problems. Sounds like nonsense.
Good luck !!
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Post Mon May 02, 2011 2:35 pm 
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mygirls63
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Joined: 09 Mar 2006
Posts: 416
Location: Kansas

As I alluded to and Gerry & outlawcaveman expanded upon, you have a cooling issue outside of the engine.

Bore size is irrevelant to cooling of the engine. The bore size is whatever is needed to hold and seal a specific piston/ring size, be it .020, .030 or more.

My previous engine combo was a .060 bore block. I had zero cooling issues unless I forgot to turn on the fans and waterpump. I use the factory (heavy) radiator, which I believe is a 3 row core, and the 2 row core is for 6 cylinders, but I could be wrong. A/C demand will dictate radiator size as well, so I may be confusing this, lol.

Flush the cooling system until clear.
As mentioned, verify there is no belt slippage.
Do you have a clutch fan or solid fan with a spacer? If a clutch fan, verify it is engaging properly.
Verify timing and that the advance works freely.
Make sure it is not excessively lean.
Make sure the radiator fins are not damaged and seals are there.
Do you have a shroud?
Hold a piece of paper in front of the radiator with the car running, Does it suck the paper into the radiator?
Are there any coolers in front of the radiator?
Does the car have A/C? If so is the condensor clean, and is the area between the radiator & condensor clean?

You might install a mechanical gauge and verify that it is running hot.

If a repair shop or machine shop is telling you that anything over .020 will cause overheating, I would reccomend you find another shop.

Personally, I would freshen up a later 289 or 302 and use that as you will have a wider range of transmissions available to you.
_________________
Scott
1963 Fairlane Mini tub 10pt cage New 408" C4 Canfield 195CC heads Comp solid roller Victor Jr. 9" w/4.11? gears Moser spool & 35 spline axles. www.marksullense85carburetors.com

Post Mon May 02, 2011 9:57 pm 
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Tbird
Newbie


Joined: 29 Jul 2009
Posts: 5
Location: Alabama

I think you already have everything you want.

That Cruiseomatic is a C-4, a first year C-4 also known as a green dot C4. A well tuned 289 C-4 with the 3 to 1 ratio will provide you with a car that you can feel the power in the seat of your pants when you get on it, but also will get good mileage if you keep your foot out of it. While not an economy car the Fairlane was known to get very good mileage, especially for the era.

I see no benefit at all in changing to an AOD and lowering the gear ratio + performance mods. That is a long expensive venture only to arrive at were you started as far as drive ability and mileage.

Within reason it is always cheaper and less headache to rebuild/replace original components than it is to modify and fabricate the car for non original components. Even with a "simple" engine and transmission swap you first have clearance issues, then mounting, then linkage, then drive shaft length, then spline adaption, do not forget about cooling and exhaust.

Some swaps simply will not work in theses cars with out a lot of work. The most notable is the 351W. There is just not enough clearance between the shock towers for even cast iron manifolds. Some may have shoe horned one in but part of the towers were ground away or some clearance work was done with a sledge hammer. Instead of that one would be better to get a shock tower kit. If you go that far you might as well put in an FE motor.

With all that said the easiest swap would be a 289-302 C-4 combo but like I said the car already has that combo now. It is just 5 bolt instead of 6.

The cooling issue could be many things. Since the car is nearly 50 years old the radiator probably needs attention, the block probably needs to be flushed and you could have issues with the water pump and it's mounting surface. It is very common for the replacement pump to be incorrect. It is very possible that the new pump turns the wrong way. Other things like plugs, timing, valves, dirty or bent radiator fins, crappy gas and restricted exhaust and a malfunctioning t stat could cause the car to run hot.

One last thing, this dates back to the flathead days. Henry designed his cars to function in Detroit when winter weather drops way below zero. So Fords even in the early 60s had marginal cooling systems in hot weather. There is little room for problems in the system. A bunch of little problems or one big one can easily overwhelm the cooling system. Add age and you can see you have a lot of things to check just maintenance wise. The best non original modification you can make on these cars is a fan shroud.
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Post Tue May 03, 2011 1:11 pm 
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Bill62
Senior Member


Joined: 30 May 2006
Posts: 278

Stay with the 302 or 289 as said before no major mods needed. I have a AOD in mine and it took some work to get it to fit. Stay with what you have. As far as the cooling problem goes have the rad cleaned and the heater coil cleaned. I hace a flex fan with a 2inch spacer and no schroud and my car runs under 200 in 95 degree weather.

Post Wed May 04, 2011 3:05 am 
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6T4LaneSportCoupe
Junior Member


Joined: 27 Jun 2010
Posts: 42

Thanks to all for the answers. I have a new belt with no slippage, the factory blade with no clutch. the system has been flushed out and the radiator has no shroud. I don't think it ever had one did it? New water pump, new radiator, new hoses so I know they are not collapsing at speed. The radiator does not have any kind of seals along the sides but I don't think it ever came with them. I can't find any evidence where they would have been attached previously. I just had surgery on my ankle so I can't get out there and look at it right now but I am pretty sure the advance works fine. I watched it move as I reved it up. Any other ideas? Thanks

Post Wed May 04, 2011 8:42 am 
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unfairlane
Junior Member


Joined: 10 Oct 2009
Posts: 36
Location: Norway

About ignition; get youself a vacuum-advance-kit (or just a vacuum-timing limiter plate) from Crane/Summit & connect your vacuum-can to manifiol/full vacuum. Then add the limiter-plate (the little black thing) under the can and adjust it to minimum movement.

This will make your ignition back off a few degrees when the enegine pulls and make it run cooler.

Kit:

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/CRN-99601-1/

booth:

http://www.cranecams.com/333.pdf

Post Wed May 04, 2011 3:34 pm 
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diegokid
Member


Joined: 28 Jan 2009
Posts: 93
Antifreeze

Are you running antifreeze? If so contrary to popular belief antifreeze makes a car run hotter. If you have antifreeze in it drain it from the radiator and the block save it if you want. Try straight water, if the system is pressurized for every one pound of pressure your boiling point will go up about three degrees so while driving with a 13 lbs system you wont boil the water until about 251 degrees. If the temp drops and stays down chances are a rediator problem rather than other stuff. Where folks get into trouble is during the winter with freezing or they open the rad cap when hot. When you release the pressure the boiling point goes back down.

There are things like water wetter and such you can try but chances there is another cause.

Post Sun Jun 05, 2011 7:12 am 
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63 fairlane 500
Member


Joined: 29 Sep 2009
Posts: 66
Location: Black Hawk SD

quote:
Originally posted by 6T4LaneSportCoupe:
Thanks to all for the answers. I have a new belt with no slippage, the factory blade with no clutch. the system has been flushed out and the radiator has no shroud. I don't think it ever had one did it? New water pump, new radiator, new hoses so I know they are not collapsing at speed. The radiator does not have any kind of seals along the sides but I don't think it ever came with them. I can't find any evidence where they would have been attached previously. I just had surgery on my ankle so I can't get out there and look at it right now but I am pretty sure the advance works fine. I watched it move as I reved it up. Any other ideas? Thanks


It may help us to know what kind of overheating problems you are having? Is the radiator boiling over or the gauge reading hot. Do you have a temp gauge installed to know the water temp or are you just going by the factory gauge, Did you change your radiator cap, is your heater core plugged, did you go to a three or 4 row radiator. or is the new radiator bad? Also was it overheating with your old radiator? knowing the answers to these may help someone pinpoint where your problem lies. Does your gas gauge work right?
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1963 Fairlane Sports Coupe
1963 Falcon Sprint Convertible
1969 Mustang Coupe

Post Sun Jun 05, 2011 1:31 pm 
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6T4LaneSportCoupe
Junior Member


Joined: 27 Jun 2010
Posts: 42

Yes, the radiator is actually boiling over so it is not just a gauge giving a false reading. Changed radiator caps with no change in the problems. I have been running straight water in it for a while due to the boil over and cost of replacing the antifreeze every time I drive it. Heater core isn't plugged. I can tell this because I use it to help the car cool down and it blows HOT air. The gauge is the factory gauge but like I said above, as it reads hot the engine does boil over so it is telling me what is happeneing. I think that while I have the brake system torn down for the swap to front discs I will also tear down the cooling system and see what I can find. Since I have replaced everything I don't know what I can be missing.

Post Sat Jul 09, 2011 9:30 am 
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