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My engine caught on fire
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Rylic
Senior Member


Joined: 18 Mar 2006
Posts: 240
Location: Jackson, TN

I honestly don't know what to do. I've turned the engine over to TDC, double checked the rotor (pointing slightly past #1, but I've turned it both clockwise and counterclockwise trying to get it to start), but it still will not start. It either belches gasoline from the carb, or belches smoke/flames from the carb or exhaust manifold. It all depends on which way/how far I turn the distributor. It's getting spark, it's getting fuel, it has to be in the timing, or the builder had to have not lined up the dots on the camshaft and crankshaft timing gears. I'm seriously considering loading the car on a trailer, hauling it up there to him, and telling him that something is wrong and since he put it together, he needs to figure it out.

On a happy note, my dome light comes on when I open either door, and my dash lights come on! Though, the clock blank side is brighter than the fuel gauge side, and I don't think any light is showing behind the speedometer. But my cold/hot/brakes/oil lights are all very bright. I didn't see the alt light though (I believe that's what the other one is). I'm sure it would only come on when the car is running and the voltage wasn't what it should be.
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1967 Fairlane 500, 302 V8, Toploader transmission. Maybe I'll eventually get it on the road.

Post Thu Jun 01, 2006 8:59 pm 
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roger
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Joined: 09 Mar 2006
Posts: 1008
Location: ontario, canada
timing

I still say your rockers are tightened down way to much or were lashed in the wrong firing order
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Post Thu Jun 01, 2006 10:45 pm 
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Rylic
Senior Member


Joined: 18 Mar 2006
Posts: 240
Location: Jackson, TN

It is possible. The guy that assembled my engine mostly builds Chevy motors.

Guess I'll pull the valve covers off again when I get home and see if I can readjust them.

I've seen a few different write-ups on rocker arm/valve adjustment, should I just go with my Haynes manual or is there a good write-up on the net?

Post Fri Jun 02, 2006 8:27 am 
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Ranch67
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Joined: 09 Mar 2006
Posts: 83

roger may be on to something. and yes maybe timing sprocket may be off a tooth.
chevy firing order?
if you're going to pull valve covers, check the order of valves while rotating the crank. watch to see if dist. is also lining up. check pushrods when valve is closed to see if they have up/down play. also check if they can spin when valves are closed.

just a thought, ford #1 cylinder is pass side front of engine, chevy is driver side.
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Post Fri Jun 02, 2006 10:49 am 
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dave s
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Joined: 10 Mar 2006
Posts: 163
Location: Tottenham Ont. Canada

You mentioned a non stock cam, could it be you have to use "351" firing order with it? Motorsport is this way with their cams. when used in a 289 or 302. also Chev, firing order and cyl. numbering are something to look out for.

Post Fri Jun 02, 2006 12:15 pm 
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Rylic
Senior Member


Joined: 18 Mar 2006
Posts: 240
Location: Jackson, TN

Ok, I pulled the valve covers off last night, and with the motor at TDC (according to the balancer), both of the #1 valves were closed, and I could twist both of the pushrods.

I was going to try and adjust them according to my book, but basically it says they're nonadjustable unless there's a hardware failure.

So does anyone have a good method for adjusting valves? I did find this at the old forums, but just wanted to double check with whether I should follow it or not.

"I usually start on the passenger side, but it doesn't matter, and same with either front or back...i like starting from the front and going back (towards the firewall). I take of both valve covers and the coil wire off the coil. I get a piece of wire and put one end on the positive side of the battery and touch the other too the starter solenoid. I think the one that is marked with an "I". If you touch one and it doesn't work it doesn't work and you touch the other one. These are the little threaded ends coming out of the solenoid that the little plugs slide on. I use this method to turn over the engine. I watch my rocker arms and as one of the valves go down i know that the valve i want to adjust is on its base circle.

So for instance i start on the passenger side at the first valve (front of engine). I watch as the valve to its left goes down, and then adjust that valve with my feeler gauge. Tighten the retaining nut and then move on to the valve next to it. Watch the valve to its right go down and then adjust that valve. Same goes down the line. Basically think of it as a set of valves per cylinder...it always alternate left/right, left/right. And i keep turning the engine over by basically hotwiring the car, just remember to take the coil wire off the coil."

From same post (and person), "ok...so this is hydraulic, correct?

I would start with #1 and do intake then exhaust and then #2...intake then exhaust, etc.

i was thinking when doing the intake valve you would know when it is on the base circle when the exhaust valve is just about open all the way...and same goes for exhaust valve when the intake is just about all the way open or even when it is starting to close.

Again, I am not sure if this method would work for a hydraulic cam, but i don't see why it wouldn't work. Please someone correct me if I am wrong.
"

-----------

So yeah, if someone can give me some advice or instructions on adjusting the valves, that'd be great.

Post Sat Jun 03, 2006 1:55 pm 
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Rylic
Senior Member


Joined: 18 Mar 2006
Posts: 240
Location: Jackson, TN

Here's another question: Is there any way to tell if the camshaft is off by a tooth other than by pulling the timing cover? If it's close to right, the valve to open after TDC would be the #1 exhaust valve, where if it was off by 180 degrees, the intake valve would be opening, correct? But is there a way to tell if it's off by just one tooth?

I'm just not looking forward to a huge mess due to pulling the water pump and timing cover off. Or having to buy four more jugs of 50/50 coolant. And I would guess the oil would have to be drained as well.

Post Sat Jun 03, 2006 5:31 pm 
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67fairlane500
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Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 263
Location: New York, NY

Very Happy Now i am not sure...but i think i wrote that post on adjusting valves...but possibly did not.

anyways....I would first get that distributor in the engine...the methods above are tried and trued. Get your thumb in there...the piston will blow it out. That's how you know your close. Grab your breaker bar and line up the line on the damper and pointer and that is ture TDC.

Set the set the rotor up and get the distributor in the engine.

Try the 289 firing order paying close attention to what cylinder is what. No good? then try the 351 firing order.

My feeling on timing...it is the same steps with every engine (not including EFI cars and diesels). A chevy cam won't work in a Ford so that isn't a problem. I think it has something to do with firing order.

This may seem stupid...but you do have number one from the distributor going to number one plug?

I understand this is frustrating but try to keep a cool head about you.

Another possibility is that the starter motor isn't turning the engine over fast enough. I had that problem on my initial startup really killed the mood especially when i had to undo a header to get the thing out. Let us know your outcome and remember we are all here to hel.
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Red 1967 Ford Fairlane convertible with built 289, 4.11s and T5!

Post Sat Jun 03, 2006 5:52 pm 
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67fairlane500
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Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 263
Location: New York, NY

regarding the camshaft timing? one tooth would probably only advance or retard cam timing...so it might be hard to tell. Not sure where it would start a no start issue.
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Red 1967 Ford Fairlane convertible with built 289, 4.11s and T5!

Post Sat Jun 03, 2006 5:53 pm 
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Rylic
Senior Member


Joined: 18 Mar 2006
Posts: 240
Location: Jackson, TN

Yeah, I did the thumb-in-the-hole thing, and checked to make sure the dizzy was pointing at #1, which it was. I've also double-checked the plug wires following the 302 firing order, though I haven't tried swapping it around for the 351 order. Might try that before I do anything with the valves, because they kinda scare me, especially knowing how little clearance there is on this motor.

You could be right on the starter issue, never thought about that causing a problem.

And I think you did write that about the valves.

Post Sat Jun 03, 2006 6:24 pm 
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Rylic
Senior Member


Joined: 18 Mar 2006
Posts: 240
Location: Jackson, TN

Ok, quick follow-up:

I swapped the firing order around to the 351 order, and gave it a spin. Still hasn't started. At one point, it blew fire out of both exhaust manifolds...the rest of the time, it would sound almost like my grandfather's 54 F350's Y-block starting up. At the moment, and this is just my guess, either the battery is too worn down (or not enough cranking amps) to start it, or I need a faster starter. It sounds almost like it's trying to start, but just doesn't finish the job.

Currently, the battery and jump-starter are charging, and I'm going to give it another try when they both get charged.

Just so I understand, how could a 302 use a 351 firing order? I read that putting 351 cams in 302's used to be a cheap performance mod, but don't the pistons move in a different order, hence the different firing orders?

Post Sat Jun 03, 2006 8:14 pm 
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67fairlane500
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Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 263
Location: New York, NY

My uncle who is very familiar with Ford engines told me they changed the firing order of the 351 to relieve stresses on one of the mains. It isn't that much different but you can see where the 289/302 (and earlier) goes 7 - 8...all on the rear main. 351 firing gets rid of this stress point...leave it to the engineers...ya know??? Very Happy

please let us know what happens. I wish you the best of luck.
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Red 1967 Ford Fairlane convertible with built 289, 4.11s and T5!

Post Sat Jun 03, 2006 9:55 pm 
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Rylic
Senior Member


Joined: 18 Mar 2006
Posts: 240
Location: Jackson, TN

Unless I recieved the wrong cam, it should be using the 302 firing order, according to a page I found through Google that is on Isky's site. I guess it was in the catalog. Anyways, yeah, it says it should be the 15426378 order for my cam. So I dunno. Gonna try starting it again later and see what happens. I dunno, I'm still thinking about just taking it to either the guy who put it together or the guy I know that builds drag cars and get a second opinion.

Post Sat Jun 03, 2006 10:01 pm 
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Fair 67
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Joined: 13 Mar 2006
Posts: 252

quote:
Originally posted by Rylic:
I dunno, I'm still thinking about just taking it to either the guy who put it together or the guy I know that builds drag cars and get a second opinion.


I think this may be your best bet now. You have tried many things with little luck. I would not adjust valves or take off the timeing cover because then the builder may say you screwwed something up... Anyway that is what I would do but that is only my opinion.. I wish I could help you more....

Post Sun Jun 04, 2006 8:40 am 
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la8ron
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Joined: 10 Mar 2006
Posts: 150
Location: New Zealand

I agree with Fair67, take it to the guy who put your motor together and get him to fix it. If you get no joy from him then take it to the guy you know who builds drag cars. Also make sure you get an explanation from them as to what has caused the problem to start with so that way if it ever happens again you know where to start from.
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Post Sun Jun 04, 2006 3:13 pm 
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