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What Oil DO I use?
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63tbolt
Newbie


Joined: 09 Mar 2006
Posts: 1
What Oil DO I use?

I would like to clear the air on what type of oil to use. I have been told the
new Synthtec oils are now not very good for older hipo motors.
I have a 427 -8v hi rise side oiler and I was using a standard 20-50 oil, I switched to 20-50 synthtec oil due to reading about how it stays cooler.
Now I have read a few articles that you should run the regular type oil in older hi-po engines
Any info would help

63tbolt
1963 fairlane sc 2dr tasca clone 427 8v hi riser side-oiler

Post Fri May 12, 2006 6:30 am 
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LiLMike
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Joined: 09 Mar 2006
Posts: 53
Location: Canton,Ohio

From what I was told and how I understand it, in new or low milage engines it is safe and sometimes prefered to use a synthtec. They run cooler, are more efficient and have better flow. Now if synthtecs are used in an older engine (One that hasn't been rebuilt) then with the synthtec oil being thinner, it will leak and be forced out of places that are mated together. A regular oil will not since it is thicker than a synthtec. As long as you change your oil & filter regulerly then any oil will be effective. A major misconsumption is that with a synthtec you can use a longer change cycle. While this is true remember it's not how long your oil will last, it's how long your oil filter will last! Also it is bad to constantly change types of oils. (Brand & Weight) Pick one and stay with it! All this is based on what I have been told or read. Hope this helps.

Mike
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1966 500XL 390 C6 Mostly stock at the moment.

Post Fri May 12, 2006 10:53 am 
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Kyle
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Joined: 19 Apr 2006
Posts: 11

A fully synthetic 20W50 is gonna be the same viscosity as a regular 20W50... I don't know where you're getting the misconception that it will hurt anything, but all you need to be careful of is "blending" synthetic and regular refined oils.

Post Fri May 12, 2006 12:49 pm 
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leadfoot25
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Joined: 07 Apr 2006
Posts: 47
thin?

Synthetic oils are far superior to standard crude, especially in a transmission, they withstand higher temps and coats/protects better reducing wear and engine temperature, and are NOT thinner than regular oils(wives tale) sorry LIL Mike, the only factual drawback to synthetics I've heard is when an engine is re-built and needs to break in, standard oil does this better the first 3-5000 miles over synthetic as the synthetics don't allow for enough wear/break in, unlike new cars today whose engine clearances are tighter and are considered pre broke in and you can switch on your first oil change.(Most manufatures say OK) In addition heavier viscosity(50 weight oils) aren't necessary better for everyday use, you should try to replace your oil with the same factory reccomended viscosity, your higher viscosity oils are generally for heavy duty use, racing, and I aggree you should change at normal intervals, not only does the filter get dirty but so does the synthetic oil, it protects better by not breaking down as quick, it still gets dirty, don't assume just because it's not dark black it's not dirty, thats when oil is past due and burnt and breaking down. Now I'm sure we will hear all kinds of contradicting testimony....my car goes faster....my engine blew up...etc so let the bee swarming begin LOL
p.s. Hey LIL Mike, get your car running?, this sat,11am to 4, Medina JVS car show benefit.

Post Fri May 12, 2006 1:41 pm 
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Rylic
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Joined: 18 Mar 2006
Posts: 240
Location: Jackson, TN

Yeah, only downside that I have heard is that on an engine with higher mileage, the synthetic will really bring out any oil leaks. Something about the conventional oil making the seals expand, but I don't have any experience with it. Maybe someone can credit/discredit that one.
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1967 Fairlane 500, 302 V8, Toploader transmission. Maybe I'll eventually get it on the road.

Post Fri May 12, 2006 5:16 pm 
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leadfoot25
Junior Member


Joined: 07 Apr 2006
Posts: 47
leaks

It's not the synthetic oils that cause the leaks but the "so called" additives and engine cleaners that cause this.

Post Fri May 12, 2006 8:45 pm 
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oldracer
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Joined: 13 Mar 2006
Posts: 77
Location: Wilhoit Az.

I ran Castrol 5-50 Syntec in my old F-250 with a 428 with 150,00 mi. and never experienced any problem,I also ran the crap out of it.
It had 90,000 when I switched from Valvoline racing oil.
"Old"

Post Fri May 12, 2006 10:23 pm 
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LiLMike
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Joined: 09 Mar 2006
Posts: 53
Location: Canton,Ohio

Like I said, that was what I was told. There was something that the synthetic causing or enhancing leaks in high milage engines. I do know what leadfoot25 said is true about the breakin period. Oils and oil additives have always been a great topic for discussion. Lot of misconceptions there!
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1966 500XL 390 C6 Mostly stock at the moment.

Post Mon May 15, 2006 4:49 am 
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1320lane
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Joined: 17 Mar 2006
Posts: 270
Location: Central Oklahoma

As I understand it, the synthetic oil tends to clean the engine out more. It cleans out the deposits left by dino oil which may have plugged up a leaky spot and then the synthetic oil will leak. Sorta like if you don't service your auto tranny regularly, it's best to just leave it alone as the new fluid tends to clean stuff out and knock stuff loose that tends to get caught in valves and passeges.
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Larry Hampton
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'63 Fairlane 2-dr post. Race car since at least '67. In the process of turning it into a proto-clone Nostalgia Super Stock car with FE power and three pedals.

Post Mon May 15, 2006 9:35 am 
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leadfoot25
Junior Member


Joined: 07 Apr 2006
Posts: 47
whoa horse

First let me take the time to say to 1320lane, this is NOT a personal attack on your statement, but I believe both those statements are also wives tales, first , if I had an engine that was so sludged up it prevented it's own leaks.....sorry can't stop laughing...I wouldn't worry about using any synthetic oil at this time anyway, and if changing my tranny fluid is going to produce a leak, more power to it!!!!, as I would rather have it brought to my attention rather than burn up my trans, as the filter would have to be just as clogged and would have to be slipping and eating my torque converted for lunch. If it's a beater chebee, sure, dump sawdust in the batty thing, but not my blue oval! LOL

Post Mon May 15, 2006 12:13 pm 
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leadfoot25
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Joined: 07 Apr 2006
Posts: 47
and....

p.s.
most additives in oils or treatments like lucas tend to rejuvenate seals making them more pliable again, helping seal leaks unless your buying a specific engine cleaner treatment, read your labels so you only get what you want, my personal favorite is Mobil1 oils 100% synthetic trans fluids, and most Lucas produts, usually race proven.

Post Mon May 15, 2006 12:19 pm 
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fastmerc
Member


Joined: 09 May 2006
Posts: 71
Location: Santa Clara, CA (Nor Cal)
Put it in!

63tbolt,

I have run Mobil1 in a 69 351W that I rebuilt back in 83 or so..... I had run dino oil in it until about 91 when I took a trip to Denver for the Cougar Nationals show. At 105 in the desert, my oil pressure never dropped and the temp never climbed!!!! Previously, a trip to the beach here (35 miles) in traffic, would see my oil pressure drop like a rock, and temps climb!!!! Not a good feeling!

I was using 15-50, but M1 stopped making this! So, I think we went to a 10-40 by Syntec or so....

When I popped the covers off to change valve seals, the inside of the motor was so clean I had to wipe all over the place to get some dirt!!!! It was amazing. The cleanliness and the improved heat operations sold me on this stuff for my stuff! I don't use it in all my cars/trucks, but the 351W and my new 4.6 truck get it. My next 302 will as well, as I need better "hot" performance from the oil, and I don't want to run such a heavy oil as a 20-50, which I need today to keep up to the temps.... (mid engined car...)

So, IMHO, put it in and run!!!! Depending on how you use the car, would tell me what weight of oil to put in. Short drives, stay with 5 or 10-30W or 10-40W. Long drives could do the same I guess...since the lighter weights will produce less internal friction, and perhaps save an oil pump driveshaft, or distributor roll pin!!!! If your motor is broken in well, I think you can get away with it. Perhaps a bottle of zinc additive for the valvetrain if the oil is new and "clean" oil.... See this(last?) month's Hot Rod or Mustangs and Fords for a great writeup on cams and lubes!!!!! Surprising info!!!

fastmerc

Post Mon May 15, 2006 1:19 pm 
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leadfoot25
Junior Member


Joined: 07 Apr 2006
Posts: 47
oil

theres 5w50 weight now

Post Mon May 15, 2006 1:52 pm 
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1320lane
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Joined: 17 Mar 2006
Posts: 270
Location: Central Oklahoma

Leadfoot, I'm not saying it plugs up all leaks, back in about '84 or '85 my father bought my sister a '82 Buick Regal to drive to high school. We lived in a little town, about 2 square miles, and a little old lady owned the car and it had 32k on it. She had had it serviced regularly by the local dealership and had written all the records in the owners manual. The car had a leaky rear main (see?) and my father pulled the pan off to repair it. The bottom of the pan had about 3/4" of deposits in it, the circle around the pickup was okay to the floor of the pan, but about a 1/2" around it the buildup started. I started out trying to use a putty knife to scrape this stuff out but it wouldn't go all the way thru, so I ended up using a wire cup brush on a 4" angle grinder to get it all out. It was parrafin deposits near as I can figure.

I took apart a flathead about a year ago and it had thick black grease all over everything. You're telling me that wouldn't plug a leak?

Oh, and the deal about servicing the tranny, that has been told to me by numerous mechanics, wouldn't it behoove them to tell me to service the tranny so they could charge me to rebuild the whole thing once they got it into the shop after they had taken it out and apart? Notice I didn't say anything about a leaky tranny, I said stuff will break loose and get caught in the valves and passeges.

And this is an attack on your reading ability. I never said it was fact, I said it was as I understand it, or as it was explained to me. I've never lost an engine or a transmission under normal or racing conditions to where the vehicle wouldn't move. I've spun a rod bearing and gotten a transmission slipping really bad, but not to the point that the car wouldn't move. I drove the rod bearing 25 miles and the tranny had lost a gear, both in a '90 Dodge Shadow with 185k on the clock. Oh, I lost third gear in my 3-speed in my '65 Mustang, someone before I owned it had forgotten to tighten the cover down and it slung all the grease out of it (and preserved my chassis nicely), drove it about 20 miles to meet my dad with a trailer. Matter of fact, I blew up the 8" rear end in that Mustang (Lincoln Locker) and drove it onto the trailer to bring it back home from the race track. Unloaded it off the trailer at my buddy's shop and drive it home, took the third member out and once I loosened the main caps and pulled the broke carrier out, the pinion bearing retainer fell apart in 3 pieces.

Synthetics are superior to dino oil, there are manufacturers in Europe suggesting 12k plus between oil changes because of using synthetic as they say it's a waste of money. Changing at 3k even with dino oil isn't needed anymore due to the superior chemistry of todays oils. Until I recently bought a 2000 Windstar, I had 4 vehicles that had over 180k on them, a '95 Windstar with a 3.8, the Shadow (inherited when I married my wife), a '94 Chysler LHS (bought for $50) and a '89 Isuzu Amigo (bought for $300), the '95 and the '94 are gone, but they all had the oil changed by me between 3k and 6k between changes. I haven't used pure synthetic in any of them, but I have used the high mileage Valvoline in the '95 and the Isuzu which, I think is a blend.

My '92 Mustang GT I ran Castrol pure synthetic in, I got to where I'd change the filter and add a quart at 3k then change at 6k and the oil was still cleaner and felt newer than the dino oil I'd change in my '65 Mustang at 2.5k

63tbolt, if your engine has been rebuilt within the last decade or two, you should be fine. The only problem I've heard about oils is new cams losing lobes, and this has been with every cam manufacturer. Problem is, the oil manufacturers have been taking the zinc out of their oils. Most of the guys on the FordFE.com forum use GM's EOS in their engines when they first start them up. As far as driving 5000 miles before switching over to synthetic, I think that's too much. On a fresh street engine, I'd replace the oil and filter at 500 miles and again at 1000 and run synthetic from then on. All the guys I know with straight drag engines only spend an hour or so break in running on dino oil and go straight to synthetic and these are 1500 to 2000 hp boosted engines.
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Larry Hampton
______________________________________________

'63 Fairlane 2-dr post. Race car since at least '67. In the process of turning it into a proto-clone Nostalgia Super Stock car with FE power and three pedals.

Post Mon May 15, 2006 2:46 pm 
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leadfoot25
Junior Member


Joined: 07 Apr 2006
Posts: 47
all in fun

ha ha ha, didn't mean to give you writers cramp, remember, no one oppinion(including my own) is ever 100% right, we share our experiences whith each other and grow from them, the only thing is I'd stay away from those mechanics..LOL, I've never posted my credentials but I was an ASE Master Tech for 16+ years before I quit doing that for a living, but even that doesn't make me an expert, I still learn everyday and only try to share what I've learned over the years hoping to help others, my oppinion is never the only right way or the final answer to anything. My goal throughout this forum is to make alot of new friends who share simular interest. I hate forums who attack each other, lets talk religion and politics now........let me get my kevlar vest on first......

Post Mon May 15, 2006 5:28 pm 
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