Author
|
Thread |
|
|
6T4LaneSportCoupe
Junior Member
Joined: 27 Jun 2010
Posts: 42
|
289 HIPO Block?...or 260
I just picked up a new engine for my 64 Fairlane so I can set the old one to the side. That way I can drive it and not worry about hurting the original engine. The guy I bought the engine from said it was a HIPO block. I am not sure. He said he has never had it apart to measure bore but the numbers code out to a HIPO. I thought all HIPO engines had the VIN stamped above the oil pan rail on the passenger side. It does not have this. Maybe it was a factory replacement block... or just a standard 289? The cast ing numbers on the block areC4OE-6015 F The date code says 4E29 Which makes it a May 29 1964 block. The assembly date stamp was 4F25 C Which codes out to June 25 1964 and checked by inspector C. I have not found anything that proves the engine as a HIPO block. I am sure that the heads are NOT HIPO nor is the rest of the engine. I am just trying to make sure it is not a 260. A run of the mill 289 block is fine to me. I can return the engine to the guy as long as I don't open it up. I know measuring the bore is the easiest way 3.800" versus 4" on the 289. If I find out the block is a standard 289 I will keep it and run it. If it is a 260 I will return it. If the block is a HIPO I will find someone who needs a HIPO block to replace theirs since I can't see hurting a rare item like that either. The block has screw in oil galley plugs in the back but it also has the oil fill in the timing cover. This is what I thought was a 260 or 289 HIPO only trait. A little guidance would be helpful. Thanks guys. I await your responses. Time is of the essence since I have to return this engine within a week if I decide I don't want it. Basically lets just make sure this is NOT a 260. Anything else means I keep it and decide what to do from there. THANKS!
Last edited by 6T4LaneSportCoupe on Sun Aug 21, 2011 4:32 pm; edited 1 time in total
|
Sun Aug 21, 2011 4:04 pm |
|
|
mygirls63
Senior Member
Joined: 09 Mar 2006
Posts: 416
Location: Kansas |
Any paint markings in the bell housing area?
Other clues would be the main caps.
Only way is to pull it apart and inspect.
What did you pay for the engine? Kind of sounds too good to be true. _________________ Scott
1963 Fairlane Mini tub 10pt cage New 408" C4 Canfield 195CC heads Comp solid roller Victor Jr. 9" w/4.11? gears Moser spool & 35 spline axles. www.marksullense85carburetors.com
|
Sun Aug 21, 2011 4:24 pm |
|
|
6T4LaneSportCoupe
Junior Member
Joined: 27 Jun 2010
Posts: 42
|
Engine was repainted Ford blue at some point so the markings "HP" on the block can't be seen. Any way to tell the difference from a 260 and a 289 from the casting #. I would think that would be the easy way to tell since the 260 casting was said to have cylinder walls too thin to be bored out. I would then think that a 260 would not have a 289 casting #? Correct?
|
Sun Aug 21, 2011 4:30 pm |
|
|
6T4LaneSportCoupe
Junior Member
Joined: 27 Jun 2010
Posts: 42
|
Oh, I paid $800 for the complete engine with 5 bolt 4 speed bell housing and a bunch of other correct 64 date coded parts.
|
Sun Aug 21, 2011 4:31 pm |
|
|
6T4LaneSportCoupe
Junior Member
Joined: 27 Jun 2010
Posts: 42
|
OK... So it was like a birthday present sitting there that I could not open! I went out and unbuttoned it. I can't seem to get pictures to upload so I will have to tell you... there is good news and bad. It IS a 289 NOT a 260. That is good. The engine has little to no wear in the cylinders. The bad news is that the block is already bored out .040. I rolled the engine over and pulled the pan. First off there was NO extra slip on counter balance for the heavier rod bolts. Also no thicker harmonic balancer. BUT it DOES have the straight main caps of a HIPO 289. It does not have the heavier duty (larger) rod bolts. This is why I guess they were able to get away without the extra weight of the balancer. It has the double row timing chain as it should have for a NON HIPO engine. The HIPO engines had a single row to be able to use the additional weight. SO... with a HIPO block but nothing else what should I do? With it already punched .040 it has little value I think to a purist. Ideas? Thanks!
|
Sun Aug 21, 2011 6:49 pm |
|
|
dave67fd
Newbie
Joined: 03 Jan 2010
Posts: 9
|
It's doubtfull you have a true hi-po or "k" motor. Most likely the PO just had a standard 289 rebuilt with a performance rebuild.
The original "k" motors had the same block stampings as a standard 289 so nothing there will help you. The original "k" motors had the beefier main caps as mentioned. I don't remember but i think it had the orange color code paint between the first and third crank journal. Do you have the heads with them or is it a short block? Of course it also had pushrod guided heads (as did many stockers), screw in studs, dual point distributor, solid lifters, cobra intake etc.. _________________ 1967 Fairlane 500 conv.
71 Bronco 302
2000 Mustang V6
2004 Escape Limited
2006 F250 Superduty
|
Sun Aug 21, 2011 10:08 pm |
|
|
6T4LaneSportCoupe
Junior Member
Joined: 27 Jun 2010
Posts: 42
|
The only part that is a K code is the block itself. It has different main caps than my other 289. These are thicker than the regular ones. The heads are run of the mill 1965 289 castings. The crank isn't marked in any way. I don't know why someone would go to the effort of installing only the main caps on a standard block but I guess it is possible.
|
Mon Aug 22, 2011 3:53 am |
|
|
|
6T4LaneSportCoupe
Junior Member
Joined: 27 Jun 2010
Posts: 42
|
Good! Then I will feel MUCH better about beating the snot out of it which is the reason I bought the thing in the first place! The 5 bolt blocks are becoming harder to find all the time. Still can't figure out why they would have gone to that kind of cost without running the better internals too. Who knows. Maybe at one time they were in there too.
|
Mon Aug 22, 2011 6:53 pm |
|
|
mygirls63
Senior Member
Joined: 09 Mar 2006
Posts: 416
Location: Kansas |
It's hard to tell who did what, when and why they did it at all!
The Hipo blocks I have seen at a friend's place, who is a ford fanatic, and who owns a decent size core bank, have had painted "dots" in the rear bell housing area near the starter. The standard blocks didn't have that marking.
The other larger core bank here in town sells the main caps off of mexican blocks as they "look" like hipo main caps. He said that people buy them, bolt them on early 289 blocks and sell them as "real" hipo blocks to people.
Is it worth anything to purists? Yes and no, probably not as much as it would be worth at standard bore.
I would be willing to wager that it is simply a reman engine from sometime back.
There was a company here in town, once upon a time, Consolidated Remanufacturing, that sold reman engines under the 4 Star brand and they were once an authorized Ford Reman engine plant. They would take engines and tear them down, clean, machine and reassemble reman engines regardless of "what" they were.
All engine blocks were the same to them, regardless if they were K code 289's, Cobra Jet's or what ever. When they rolled out the door, they all ended up as factory stock, low compression replacement engines. They were all bored .040 over. It was simpler than stocking several overbore sizes for each engine.
Have the main tunnel checked for size and straight, and if all is well, bore that thing .060 and build it how you want it. Be aware though, there is no real advantage to that block over a standard 289 block of that era. Although the main caps are beefier, I have never seen a main cap "fail". Cap walk yes, but an actual cap failure, no. The main webbing and the rods will let go long before a stock cap will.
Have fun! _________________ Scott
1963 Fairlane Mini tub 10pt cage New 408" C4 Canfield 195CC heads Comp solid roller Victor Jr. 9" w/4.11? gears Moser spool & 35 spline axles. www.marksullense85carburetors.com
|
Mon Aug 22, 2011 9:10 pm |
|
|
mygirls63
Senior Member
Joined: 09 Mar 2006
Posts: 416
Location: Kansas |
You mentioned the slip on counterbalance. I often wondered about that piece. It would be neat to weigh a stock rod and piston side by side with an original K code rod and piston.
Although the rod would be heavier due to the larger bolt, my guess is that the early forged K code piston was probably quite a bit heavier than a standard cast piston. The nearer the rotating weight is to the crankshaft centerline, the less difference it makes. I am thinking that they used the slip on counterweight as a cost saving way to balance for a heavier bobweight without redrilling a standard 289 crank. _________________ Scott
1963 Fairlane Mini tub 10pt cage New 408" C4 Canfield 195CC heads Comp solid roller Victor Jr. 9" w/4.11? gears Moser spool & 35 spline axles. www.marksullense85carburetors.com
|
Mon Aug 22, 2011 9:29 pm |
|
|
63 fairlane 500
Member
Joined: 29 Sep 2009
Posts: 66
Location: Black Hawk SD |
The casting numbers for a 64 289 are C4OE-B according to the book how to build your small block ford. C4OE-F codes out as a 289.
http://www.castingnumbers.info/site/browse/m/Ford/c/Engine_Blocks/t/Windsor_V8 _________________ 1963 Fairlane Sports Coupe
1963 Falcon Sprint Convertible
1969 Mustang Coupe
|
Tue Aug 23, 2011 4:37 pm |
|
|
|
roger
Senior Member
Joined: 09 Mar 2006
Posts: 1008
Location: ontario, canada |
identity
I posted your #'s over at the Fairlane club site & Bob Mannel, the guru of all things Hi-po came back with:
The only way to tell for sure is check to see if their are sequential #'s on the machine boss above the equaliser bar(Z-bar)
you can see his comments over there under Tech icon. 289 hi-po identity _________________ roger powell
|
Wed Aug 24, 2011 11:17 am |
|
|
6T4LaneSportCoupe
Junior Member
Joined: 27 Jun 2010
Posts: 42
|
I read the posts by Ron. I guess the only way it could be a K code block is if it was an over the counter replacement since I could not find a VIN stamped on the block. I am leaning towards someone adding the main caps later. Who knows why? Anyway, I guess it goes to the machine shop this week. Going to have the cylinders checked. there is no ridge at the top of the cylinder but the walls are really smooth with no crosshatch showing. I doubt it will be able to be saved with a honing. Probably have to go out to .060. Since I am building a K code looking car (Factory K code manifolds, factory ford 4 barrell intake, factory heads) all made to look like a K code, What combo is going to give me a performance similar or better than the original K code. I don't want a race only car. I want something streetable that I can drive 100 miles without worried of overheating etc. I am going to keep the Cruis-A-Matic for a while but will change to a 4 speed later on. I also have a 9" rear to bolt in with 3.50 gears. I found out that the Bronco rear end I have is only 1/2" wider at teh backing plates than the 8" in there now.
|
Fri Aug 26, 2011 8:32 pm |
|
|