upper length has little effect on a short travel suspension like a car....different world on a stadium truck or the like...

getting a difference in length between the two arms will help with the camber curve but the most impact will come from lowering the mounting point on the car (IE shelby drop)

bump steer would come more from messing with the tie rod locations.

the CPP box is a bit cheaper and comes in 14:1 vs the 16:1 on the borgeson. from what I understand the fairlane uses a different bolt pattern than a mustang.


my car had a rag joint from the factory so swapping boxes shouldn't be too tough to handle.

quote:

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Originally posted by purf_man:
the CPP box is a bit cheaper and comes in 14:1 vs the 16:1 on the borgeson. from what I understand the fairlane uses a different bolt pattern than a mustang.


my car had a rag joint from the factory so swapping boxes shouldn't be too tough to handle.

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quote:

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Originally posted by CompactFairlane:

quote:

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Originally posted by purf_man:
the CPP box is a bit cheaper and comes in 14:1 vs the 16:1 on the borgeson. from what I understand the fairlane uses a different bolt pattern than a mustang.


my car had a rag joint from the factory so swapping boxes shouldn't be too tough to handle.

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Correct on the rag joint: all 1962-65 'lanes use it

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quote:

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Originally posted by mygirls63:

quote:

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Originally posted by CompactFairlane:

quote:

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Originally posted by purf_man:
the CPP box is a bit cheaper and comes in 14:1 vs the 16:1 on the borgeson. from what I understand the fairlane uses a different bolt pattern than a mustang.


my car had a rag joint from the factory so swapping boxes shouldn't be too tough to handle.

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Correct on the rag joint: all 1962-65 'lanes use it

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That is not true.

When I went to a local salvage yard to source a steering box to use for spare parts, they had several cars with the 1 piece steering (no rag joint) shaft. By all outward appearances, they looked to be the same basic box, but I have no way to prove that so I stayed away from the long shaft box.

There seemed to be no rhyme or reason for what car got what, it made no sense. They were in both L-6 & V-8 cars!

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I agree with Mygirls63. We have parted out many of these cars and some had the long shaft and some the rag joint. 6cyl and v8. Definitely odd for sure.
_________________
Steve 64 S/C big brakes 8.8 rear 289 lentech AOD, strut front suspension

I first thought that these cars all had rag joints also, but when I went looking for a gear box to use for parts to rebuild mine, I found out different.

There is a salvage yard local here that has 10 - 12 of the 62 -64 cars.
About 4 of these cars had the long shaft steering box.

I picked out a box I wanted (manual) and left. After they pulled all of the parts I requested, I picked up the box and they pulled the wrong box (power).

I took it and disassembled the box. It is the same as a manual box. The only difference was in the pitman arm. Different length for the power box. I rebuilt my box with the best parts of both.

Either will interchange, but you would have to have the correct steering column as well. I suspect that the internal steering box parts would be the same as well, with the exception of the cross shaft!
_________________
Scott
1963 Fairlane Mini tub 10pt cage New 408" C4 Canfield 195CC heads Comp solid roller Victor Jr. 9" w/4.11? gears Moser spool & 35 spline axles. www.marksullense85carburetors.com

made some more proggress...





so far in both arms and strut rods I have maybe $150 in this so far and that is with me buying most the mounting tabs myself or overpriced materials from Lowes.

I am currently working on finding a good supplier for some low volume cnc plasma shops (local or mail order) and if I can find some good pricing I could maybe do a HEIM strut rod kit. (new frame bracket, and the rod)

I am not professing to be an expert here, but...
I see a potential issue with your design. I could be wrong, but hear me out...

You should consider mounting the strut to the control arm with another heim joint.

If you mount the strap that is welded to the threaded shaft solid onto the control arm, I feel that it will flex there at the weld and fracture.

Since each arm moves in an arc, a solidly mounted strut will try to twist the control arm in the bushing. If the inner bushing is anything other than rubber, the arm will resist this movement. That could break the joint at the arm or at the threaded rod. Your idea of a heim joint as the inner control arm bushing would be a good idea to solve this as well.

Also will this setup result in a greater degree in the change of the caster angle as it moves up & down?

Doesn't the rubber bushings at the front of the strut rod allow the arm to move without a change of caster angle by allowing the strut rod movement forward and aft?

Just something to ponder!
_________________
Scott
1963 Fairlane Mini tub 10pt cage New 408" C4 Canfield 195CC heads Comp solid roller Victor Jr. 9" w/4.11? gears Moser spool & 35 spline axles. www.marksullense85carburetors.com

you are teh second person to sugest a second heim but I see some issues....

1. setups that use a second heim use a solid joint to keep the control arm from rotating along its length.

2. there is alot of metal going into this weld (TIG welded and full penetration) so I am not too concerned about a weak spot....take a look at the stock arms and how "beefy" they are.

I am still open to ideas. I am only tack welding things are this point to see how they fit up and all.

ran into a temporary snag.

I was hoping to set this all up so my 19" wheels I have (were on my truck) would fit up on the car (since they look bada$$ being powdercoated gloss black...incase I did the matte black look on the car) they have 255/40/19 tires on them (yeah WAY wide for stock fenders and turns out TOO tall at 27")



here is the car set at 2" lower than stock (measured from the front bumper mount holes and ford manual) with the 27" tire. I have lost about all my travel I could have (upper control is almost in bind at this point....close enough to can't lift it up high enough to get the balljont stud off the spindle) the tire BARELY rubs the battery tray area when turned past half lock (this could be an easy fix though with a welder or hammer and dolly)

I had purchased some bullitt mustang wheels WAY back in 2005 when I was in college (man I feel old) they are currently on my truck but shoudl be coming off in the next week and have the stock (as in still factory) 245/45/17's which measure out at 25" so this should lower my balljoint an inch which should help out my clearnace issues a bunch.

I have sitched to a solid heim on the strut rod (just ended up being way easier to deal with....have an ugly homemade temp on it right now) I have it mounted a little away form the balljoint and am having a tight clearance condition with the swaybar so will be moving it outboard a good bit (will do it once I have te other wheels so I can move it as far as I can and still maintain clearance with the sidewall)

looks like another order will be going in to speedway motors for some bits tonight or later this week (have to switch from 1/2" sleeves to 3/4" to get the solid heims....plus I need some longer sleeves anyways)

new heims will be here tomorrow so this weeked I should have my lowers all sorte out and maybe even welded up.

I have been trying to figure out my uppers though. I was looking at sectioning a mustang upper to make it longer and putting a fairlane shaft in it and running a set of spring perchs and all from a mustang nd then having to prob fab or modify my upper spring cups (might need set ride height with them as I think the mustang coils are shorter) this is prob the simplest "upgrade" I can think of but has some downsides like no improved camber curve (IE shelby drop) and the $180 an arm for new shafts.

the other option I am weighing is cutting the old arm mouns off the front frame rail and trimming back the shock towers and welding in a filler plate so I could just run mustang uppers out of the box (would also gain some width in the enginebay) Kinda like this...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kDFke4twWI4

I have thought about cut the stock upper arm pad out and taking an inch out of it and putting it back in to get the better camber curves but after looking at the captures nuts and their slots it seems like it will be e ton of work to do.

quote:

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Originally posted by mygirls63:
I first thought that these cars all had rag joints also, but when I went looking for a gear box to use for parts to rebuild mine, I found out different.

There is a salvage yard local here that has 10 - 12 of the 62 -64 cars.
About 4 of these cars had the long shaft steering box.

I picked out a box I wanted (manual) and left. After they pulled all of the parts I requested, I picked up the box and they pulled the wrong box (power).

I took it and disassembled the box. It is the same as a manual box. The only difference was in the pitman arm. Different length for the power box. I rebuilt my box with the best parts of both.

Either will interchange, but you would have to have the correct steering column as well. I suspect that the internal steering box parts would be the same as well, with the exception of the cross shaft!

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This is a family run operation, second generation at least. Not much for late model stuff.

They really do not do much with buying cars. They do sell parts all of the time, but seem to do alot with scrap iron.

They said they do not crush anything!

Most of the cars are really rusty and somewhat picked over. (Our area of Kansas is known for road salt. We have 1 salt mine and 2 more brine plants. The Kansas Undergound Salt Museum is located here, shameless plug!)

I don't know that any of them even know much about computers. As far as I know they are not connected to any sort of parts locator system.

Cash only.

Pifers Auto Salvage.

Any thing in particular you are looking for?
_________________
Scott
1963 Fairlane Mini tub 10pt cage New 408" C4 Canfield 195CC heads Comp solid roller Victor Jr. 9" w/4.11? gears Moser spool & 35 spline axles. www.marksullense85carburetors.com

Last edited by mygirls63 on Thu Feb 04, 2010 10:03 pm; edited 1 time in total

Cool, how often do you go and do you have any photos? Sounds interesting. I'm waiting on a fellow board member to get back with me on some parts. If some one beats him to a yard, this may be an option.